I noticed, that in Februrary a question concerning the Comptometer copper finish was asked. I wonder, if anyone ever answered? Because I am curios about it too.

...On the comptometer I also had a question on the finish. I have a 1920 vintage comptometer, but mine has a green finish. I am sure this is not an aftermarket job. This was produced in this color. I have never seen one like this. Has anyone else? or can anyone comment on the color question?

Thanks, 

Fred

In answer to Fred's comments and question, Ames Supply Co. had spray cans of paint in many of the "factory" colors or close-to-its , a hammed tone finish and a bake on winkle finish. There are thousands of machines out there that were re-painted with these paints.

Don,

Can you say what has become of Ames Supply? Seems to me that they used to be a wonderful source of tools, supplies, and parts for typewriters.

About Comptometer's finish:

Some weeks ago, on a flee market, I found four Comptometers, the three of them of the more modern type from the 50's: one ordinary, made in USA, one electrically driven, and one made under licence in the U.K., but the fourth was of the old type except that it was painted in exactly the same colour as the newer ones: a green frosty-looking paint. Apparently this one is like yours, Fred. I wonder if it is a stock of the older model, that the factory tried to "modernize"?

Hello:

I am a collector of Comptometer material. In particular, I like the wooded cased ones made from about 1887 to some time shortly after 1900, when the model A came out (first duplex model, glass plate in front).

In the following, note that I am NOT faulting either the auction house or the seller on this item from whom I received the item. Greed and less than careful reading of the auction blurb were my problem and only my problem.

In any event, I bid on and won a wooden cased Comptometer. When it finally arrived, I found, much to my surprise, that the case of the machine had been "modernized" by person or persons unknown. The wooden case had been worked over to make it look like it was metal with a copper finish. This was done by coating the case with a filler (like plaster), sanding this very smooth, and then painting it with copper-tone paint. Ugh. Maybe this could be reversed, maybe not. I am reluctant to touch it: I just might make it worse.

I would guess that both of these "modernizations" were done by local dealers. I cannot conceive that F&T would stoop to this kind of deception.

To the List: Back in January 1998, about the time I bought my first Comptometer, I sent a query to The List re whether the copper finish should be dull or polished. Ray Mackay <info@casio-calculators.com.au> replied that the finish should be the dull copper; he also sent out some info on oiling points, etc., that was helpful to me. My machine SN is 242464.

About a month ago I found a black steel Comptometer cover for cheap, but it is for a shorter model; it is 13 inches wide by 15 inches deep (long). Don't know what model it is for, but I set my longer machine on top of it for display.

In my collection of comptometers, I have a "green" one, (factory finish) made by the Plus Computing Machines Inc./Bell Punch Company Limited of Great Britain. The model number is 509/C/85.827/Q. Maybe the serial number is part of that. It is a "five key" (1-5) instead of 0-9. It is extremely well made and is a pleasure to depress the keys as it is comfortable to use. I can see how one would be very proeficient using one.

Dear Calc Group members

I an not a member of the group however I get all your report, courtesy Eric, and thus I see all that is going on. I am unable to respond to the group in general so I have responded to members expressing interest.

Over the past week or so I have seen quite a debate on the original colours of Comptometer Cases and the colours or re-furbished machine cases.

All early models coming from Felt & Tarrant that were square in shape has a copper plated under finish and over this was spray a brown tanslucent laquer. This allowed the copper undercoat to shine or glow through giving the machine a rich brown finish.

On some early models the Comptometer LOGO was a deeper brown and later this was changed to black. This finish remained in use up to and including the model 'J' and Model 'K' (electric)

When the model 'J' was replaced with the 'M' or 'WM' (War Model) with rounded pressed metal cover the colour changed to a green wrinkle finish and the keyplate was in a brushed chrome (satin) finish. This colour remained until the 3D11 and 992-C when the wrinkle finish green took on a slightly greyish tinge.

When Felt and Tarrant changed to Comptometer Corp and merged with Control Systems (Bell Punch et al). The excellent Felt and Tarrant mechanism change to their mechanism and the Simplex and Duplex machines came into being. The Comptometer Corporation units were in a smooth sand colour with ligh brown decorative name plated. Bell Punch (Sumlock) machines retained their green hammertone finish.

Many of the old square machines were refurbished, that is they were stripped down and rebuild removing all worn parts and replacing them. These machine were painted a smooth green colour and the worn keyboards were replaced with new ones. Similar during conversion from Sterling to Decimal the Keyplates on Model 'M' et al were replaced with painted hammertone (silver) keyboards.

I have also noted comments concerning short keyboard machines. Machines with only keys numbered 1 to 5. These machines were first introduced by Control Systems (Bell Punch) for adding. Comptometerists were always taught to use the lower keys for adding as it gave them extra speed. If someone only wanted to add then the upper keys were rarely used.

It should be understood that the Comptometer (including the similar Burroughs machine) was not only used for addition. It was also used for Subtraction, Multiplication, Division and the extraction of Square Root. For these functions the full keyboard was essential as to perform a simply multpication of 67 X 79 would require the placing of the fingers on the seven and nine key in the lower order column and actuating the keys with seven strokes. The fingers would then moved over to the ten order and the seven and nine pressed six times.

Note during this operation the fingers never left the hand (sorry I could not resist that). The fingers remained in close contact with the keys. To endeavour to do this on a short keyboard would have been difficult if not impossible. At the very least it would have required a great deal of mental activity.

Subtraction, Division and Square Root were accomplished by the compliment additive system and this is why on the Comptometer keys each one has two numbers the normal adding number and it's compliment.

Operators did not normally have to look at the keyboard and their operation skills were of the touch operator variety with their eyes running down the figures and very little thought to the additive process. Many operators achieved 100% accuracy. However in a Comptometer Pool (similar to a typist pool) the figures were usually checked by a second operator as a matter of course. Where results did no match then this calculation was tagged for review.

As a service manager on Comptometer and other devices it is not surprising that I met and married a Comptometerist and believe it or not we still have many of her training books and tutorials.

It has been pointed out to me that some cheaper copies of the Bell Punch (industrial) type machines with plastic keys and key levers were introduced. I would suspect these filled a niche where a customer only had limited use and expectations. As I worked in the area of the better brands I can not comment on these machines. I did look at some web sites and noticed a similarity of design and idea.

Trusting this helps various members of the group